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-   -   interesting and well overdue (http://www.ceforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8860)

V8Druid 23-09-2017 10:22 AM

interesting and well overdue
 
Agricultural tractors "likely" to require an O-licence

http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/...edium=facebook

http://www.commercialmotor.com/sites...amp=1505827311

http://www.commercialmotor.com/news/...ractor-testing

JD450A 23-09-2017 11:19 AM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
To be very blunt Grah, It's basically DFT pissing in the wind and a utter waste of everyones time and effort.... those 180 Tractors that fall within scope will be the ones in the UK that have operators licenses and have been doing it within the framework for a rather long time.

I have also long been of the opinion that testing tractors is a waste of time and effort.... Trailers on the other hand should be done yearly.... Rare that a tractor is in worse condition than the trailer it's towing :/ That counts for every trailer over 3.5 tons.... I have seen some right shitters in the past 12 months including a 10t Grain trailer used for dung, with no brakes and a self steering axle! :O

From what I've seen the RHA is a organisation focused on blaming outside sources for it's industrys continual race to the bottom instead of addressing the real issue which ultimately is hauliers undercutting each other, putting untrained/underpaid drivers in vehicles and situations they have no experience in and then getting the inevitable results.

Costs of running Traccys or Lorries are equal... only gain is that a standard (non hi speed) tractor falls into domestic drivers hours and removes the EU Drivers hours Bullshit. It's actually something I am currently seriously considering (Putting the likes of a NH TS115 on the operators license and using that to shift.... well everything!).

If the RHA are that concerned with safety they should start looking at there own members and sorting issues... Bridges and weight limits being somewhere to start.


That's my opinion anyway.

bri963 23-09-2017 05:57 PM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
Last night, just getting dark, I followed a John Deere pulling a three ton Ifor, two different reg. nos., a five ton Volvo excavator with one knackered strop over the front end, nothing holding the back, and half of the trailer lights not working. I think that one was running a lot cheaper than a wagon. Trouble is round here, there's not a lot of risk of getting pulled by VOSA or plod.

V8Druid 23-09-2017 07:26 PM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
they're all at it around here ... excavators, dump/tipper trailers full of spoil, a lot of trailers that should be scrapped, etc., etc.
If you took to the roads with some of the scrap they're dragging, with anything but a traccy, you'd be a plod magnet and have the book slammed down on yer head. :rolleyes:

sadly even those running decent kit are doing it on red, no tax, etc., etc. and running their businesses on this method of shifting gear about :(

Getting away with bloody murder, supposedly in the name of agriculture!! :mad:

and before any of our farming brethren chime in ..... these people are muckshifting/moving plant as a business .... end of and have no defence, so don't even try :mad:

JD450A 23-09-2017 08:58 PM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
Thing is tho Grah.... Do you honestly think this will alter anything..... I don't

Once the rules change I could still go and buy a clapped out JD3650 and drag a 13 tonner around without issue :mad:

V8Druid 23-09-2017 11:06 PM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JD450A (Post 156322)
Thing is tho Grah.... Do you honestly think this will alter anything..... I don't

Once the rules change I could still go and buy a clapped out JD3650 and drag a 13 tonner around without issue

what is required are some confiscations of all the equipment Rory ... it'd make people think ... a lot .... before doing it ;)

here's a classic example on FB

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...db&oe=5A4B1014

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...a7&oe=5A412273

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...b2&oe=5A4D8329

looks a real ag set up that eh? NOT!!

JD450A 23-09-2017 11:27 PM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V8Druid (Post 156323)

looks a real ag set up that eh? NOT!!

And the change in law won't even touch that as the tractors almost certainly only 40k... To be honest bar eating some Cherry (which is another issue entirely and a matter that HMRC should sort out (i.e make it mandatory to be running white on the road with a separate, external change over tap IMHO) that setup is one of the better ones, Look Chains!!

I will be very blunt.... We do it on several of our sites. All Agri work. I've Run a 8t Lowdeck plant trailer since 2013, two 10t rated chains over the tracks and either a 10t chain or a 5t strap over the boom. Gets done because there is simply no other option bar tracking machines up the road and in terms of grey areas, the tractor trailer is at least insured and licensed without doubt. I have also just purchased another 8t chassis to mount an 18' ally body on to enable me to get my bogmats in and out of jobs.... that or put them on the cabstar and be properly overweight :(

They need to properly decide who is conducting the orchestra before they start making laws, HMRC is a Diesel/Tax issue, Traffic commissioner should be the Road Safety/Operators license issue, and DVSA should be the Driver issue.... what we will end up with is a cockwombled approach that further hides those who are a problem, and causes issues for those doing it properly :mad:

Needs a proper rewrite of the rule book with a few clever people to axe the loopholes and bring it back to something workable. I am looking atm at moving to 100% traccy for everything (obviously not skips, but everything else).... I'll be doing it properly however, and that will mean 12 monthly brake tests on the trailer whether required or not.

V8Druid 24-09-2017 12:02 AM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JD450A (Post 156324)
And the change in law won't even touch that as the tractors almost certainly only 40k... To be honest bar eating some Cherry (which is another issue entirely and a matter that HMRC should sort out (i.e make it mandatory to be running white on the road with a separate, external change over tap IMHO) that setup is one of the better ones, Look Chains!!

...............

Needs a proper rewrite of the rule book with a few clever people to axe the loopholes and bring it back to something workable. I am looking atm at moving to 100% traccy for everything (obviously not skips, but everything else).... I'll be doing it properly however, and that will mean 12 monthly brake tests on the trailer whether required or not.

"That" is paying no VED (road tax), running red, no O license, almost certainly questionable insurance, as it is not performing legally, etc., etc. .


........

so DERV in the tank, O license, Tacho, change of taxation class from Ag to ??????, etc., etc. ?
Good luck to you Rory ..... I can fully understand why, in your neck of the woods .... pretty 'kin tight ol' spots you have to get to.

I agree .... it needs a whole new set of rules, written by someone other than brain dead *ricks, who know sod all about what they are legislating about ..... never happen though, will it .... UK PLC :mad:

JD450A 24-09-2017 12:42 AM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by V8Druid (Post 156325)

so DERV in the tank, O license, Tacho, change of taxation class from Ag to ??????, etc., etc. ?
Good luck to you Rory ..... I can fully understand why, in your neck of the woods .... pretty 'kin tight ol' spots you have to get to.

Will be DERV, Possibly O license, Tachograph not required as under 25mph on UK Domestic rules, Tax class is the stumbling block but will most likely wind up in specialist vehicles class at £250/y

d4c24a 24-09-2017 07:48 AM

Re: interesting and well overdue
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JD450A (Post 156326)
Will be DERV, Possibly O license, Tachograph not required as under 25mph on UK Domestic rules, Tax class is the stumbling block but will most likely wind up in specialist vehicles class at £250/y

After a lengthy debate on the rules running a dumper on the road on facebook (loaded) ;)

Good morning

As per Excise Notice 75 section 8.15 the distance travelled must be within one kilometre.

However if you would still like to apply for a ‘red diesel licence’ please write to

HMRC
Business Tax Operations Unit
Mineral Oil Reliefs Centre
BP 4202 - Benton Park View
Longbenton
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE98 1ZZ

with details of:
all of the vehicles you intend to use on the public road
what these vehicles are normally used for
the category of excepted vehicle under HODA Schedule 1 for each of your qualifying vehicles
the tax class in which each of these vehicles is classified by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). Please indicate also if any of the vehicles are the subject of a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN)
the circumstances in which these vehicles will use the public road and the frequency of that use
the journeys these vehicles are likely to make and the estimated distances these will cover
where the oil is stored (if not at the address shown on your letter)
why you cannot use fully duty paid fuel and must use rebated heavy oil
what sort of rebated heavy oil you intend to use as fuel
roughly how much you intend to use each year and when you will start
whether you are likely to use any rebated heavy oil for purposes other than as fuel and without payment of rebate
the price you are currently paying (including Excise duty) per litre of rebated heavy oi


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