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  #11   IP: 95.147.72.65
Old 19-02-2017, 02:23 PM
Cheggars Cheggars is offline
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Ambassador required? Does this involve being 'spoiled' with Ferrero Rocher?
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  #12   IP: 31.94.228.181
Old 19-02-2017, 02:32 PM
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Quite why theres not a Demo Machine touring the country.... No one would say no to a couple days free hire!
That is something Eddie had been pushing since Tim Wood was at the helm, there should be some sort of try before you buy, it not car insurance that's been sold.
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  #13   IP: 81.154.231.73
Old 19-02-2017, 09:46 PM
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I'd sell them, they should practically sell themselves providing you are selling them to the right people... I could talk to a brick wall all day and not sell anything to it however. Price is the biggest factor as for someone like myself and many others the cost of a tilty and buckets is nowhere compensated by it's ability. Quite why the manufacturers aren't pushing S Type Hitches down our throats makes me wonder... Sell the S type and Buckets first and then attack the tilty market. Converting over to S Type is almost as expensive as the tilty it'self if you run a set of attachments like most owner operators do. I have 8 attachments and another 3 on the way. At a minimum of 500 a bucket that's 4k for my current set of buckets. Minimum, More likely 7k+..

Main thing with sales IMHO is not to be a gobshite that does other manufacturers down. Nothing is more off-putting than a salesman slagging everyone else's product off without actually knowing the in's and out's of your own equipment.

I am a Closet tilty worshipper.... but I also have to be a businessman and 11k would buy a lot of kit that'd earn more money with a shorter payback and more versatility..... In the wise words of the wise old owl... Don't believe the Hype.

I am pleased Engcon UK are on here engaging... Positive steps.

On another note if you lot could stop suggesting I apply for jobs that'd be great... I'm enjoying being unemployable I er mean Freelance.... My consultancy fee is only a paid meal for each good Idea I provide.

That comment is gonna come back to haunt you on many occasions I'm sure Rory ...... and with those sort of fees ..... you must be bloody starving
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  #14   IP: 81.154.231.73
Old 19-02-2017, 09:52 PM
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Thing is those that will buy them do not need to be told about them, they all ready know the benefits and pitfalls and all there after is them to become cost effective.

A Ex Caterpillar manager once told me "the Dealer sells the first machine, The Backup Sells the rest"... Not a truer word spoken... same with Buckets, Hitches, Etc.

Sell the low value items. Bucket set and Hitch... Engcons Stuff is competitive if your after quality and it provides an entry point to sell a system! Particularly if the backup is on par!
have to say Rory that's quite a sensible idea ..... they might owe you a meal there mate

Without question, the S type hitch .... whoever's it is, is a damned good system
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  #15   IP: 86.165.39.61
Old 20-02-2017, 09:10 AM
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That comment is gonna come back to haunt you on many occasions I'm sure Rory
Don't think it will. Funnily enough had a guest down yesterday and went looking at engcons in a local yard.. If you love plant then you can't help but think tiltys are neat bits of kit.... but at what cost!
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  #16   IP: 95.150.140.67
Old 20-02-2017, 09:24 AM
Eddiebackblade Eddiebackblade is offline
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Don't think it will. Funnily enough had a guest down yesterday and went looking at engcons in a local yard.. If you love plant then you can't help but think tiltys are neat bits of kit.... but at what cost!
Something you may ponder Rory?

An awful lot of guys now in all sorts of applications have took Tilty's in every form of spec from a basic 4 pipe to the whole package.
They cover a huge range of work and customers now, let alone carrier machines of all shapes and sizes.

Have any gone back to conventional? Does the mythical skip of broken over complex Tilty's exist?

If you keep simply playing the cost card you may as well move on in your mind, otherwise do something about getting to grips with one for longer than a few minutes playing about and the penny may drop, the return even in the worst case scenario, drips back steadily.
If there are non in your area presently all the better, as it'll return a little faster.


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  #17   IP: 86.165.39.61
Old 20-02-2017, 09:52 AM
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I understand what your saying Eddie, However it's always got to come down to the final line of cost, payback and what the customers prepared to pay in the first place.

A prime example is a large firm me and Strott had a gander at yesterday. You can probably guess who it is as they are from your background.

Four fully tilty equipped machines sat in the yard. Not the sort of sized machines you bring back for security reasons either. To my knowledge that's there whole local fleet for this area. Admittedly they are the sort of company that will do one job and it'll pay for the next couple months with ease but not all of us have the luxury of high paying blue chip work, nor do we want it.

As you say there are plenty of outfits that are progressing down the tilty route. But I've yet to see a quantity of S/H units or Damaged units anywhere. Two possible reasons for it. 1) they last for more than one machine (I personally believe this) 2) Someone's giving a better P/X for old units than you can get on a private sale and is scrapping the old units that are getting beyond it?

The cost card as you put it is unfortunately something that simply can't be ignored. It's a significant cost to any small outfit and needs to be carefully weighed against it's potential benefits. As I've said before for me the Returns both financially and productively don't match the cost and outlay of changing across to Tilty, the S type issue kills it off finally as let's be brutally honest not having a S type Hitch with a tilty is a bit like buying a brand new Aston Martin and putting the cheapest tyres going on it.

Whilst my setup might not bear any relation to some people I sure as hell know that I'm in the same situation as at least two other members of this forum.... Which from a sales point of view begs the question how to make a tilty affordable for Us. The answer in my opinion is to make changing over to S type couplers and buckets a no brainer and then you've knocked a considerable expense off the tilty when it comes.

S Types are competitively priced as is but I myself and i'm sure others build a set of buckets and attachments and will look to keep them when they move to the next machine. So the issue is how to get us to part with money on a set of new buckets to replace the old ones that have lots of life left in them?

We live in a world where Bob the plumber with van and tools easily earns more than some owner operators with 30k machines....
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  #18   IP: 95.150.140.67
Old 20-02-2017, 10:44 AM
Eddiebackblade Eddiebackblade is offline
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I really wish you could have been with me on a tiny job before Christmas that I did on a price and unfortunately couldn't get my 8 tonner in, so ended up hiring in a few bits of kit.
This would be a typical job for yourself, and consisted of some excavation on sloping ground to form a flatter area for a cattle handling pen, then placing concrete sleepers to form a road through it.
A bit of fencing, 50 metres of water pipe up a fair slope and then stone up the place when finished.

I hired in Shaun with his PC27 and Engcon setup for a few reasons, but mainly because it had an Engcon on it, and I knew he had a timber grab that could handle the sleepers.
He transported the sleepers and I jumped on the Komatsu, which turned out a superb little setup.

The whole job in reality ended up a total mini and Engcon showcase, with the ability to cut into banks, form batters, level ground etc a complete doddle without trafficking the site to make any mess.
Handling the sleepers was simply brilliant, and I was shocked at the capacity of the little PC27, which threw them around like nothing, and was capable of covering more ground than I thought possible.

Then came the water pipe, in clay ground you could have thrown a pot with out of every scoop! I simply used the Engcon grader as a V bucket to form a tidy V trench, no banging of buckets, no messing about, and a single pass alongside had it backfilled tidy. The whole job took minutes and you could hardly see where we had been as the turf was all back on the top, again stripped with the Engcon grader and placed back easily.

All tiny examples on one project, but the simple fact was, it saved massively on labour on the project, allowed me to undertake the job when conditions were marginal, was far safer, the finish was better than ever possible to achieve with a standard machine, and lastly the client was over the moon at how well everything had gone and the results.

Shaun was a very early adopter of the system and however much he'll hate to admit it, a go on my first Engcon equipped machine sealed his fate forever!
It's been fantastic to see his business and reputation grow in this area, and the Engcon has opened doors for him he probably never imagined.
Shaun now has a real broad range of clients, and many simply have him because of the difference the Engcon brings over others available, he keeps a reputation for a tidy finish on jobs, and has a well matched but not under-utilised range of attachments that compliment it.
Anyone who follows Matthew Johnson's progress on the media, he's another who came for a visit and look where he's at now?
Shaun's unit is still tidy and more than capable of transferring to his next machine for a second life.

The point I'm making is, there is absolutely a place for a Tilty in your work, and will it pay, yes it will, especially on small price work.
Keep the labour out of it and let attachments do the work. You love to mock about attachments in the nettles, well they can be for me? Why? Well labour is hard to find, doesn't want work these days, if it's any good you pay top dollar to train them and then they setup against you a year later!
But tell me this have you ever seen a man with a resale value against that attachment in the nettles?
The machine Tilty/Attachment setup is here to stay now and will only grow, it won't catch on as fast as the Excavator tree shear combo, which is already making a huge inroad into the industry, just as Harvesters did Forestry, but it will grow.

I can only urge you to get more time behind the levers of Tilty's to see the benefits, If you lived closer you'd have one by now, but don't let anyone in the area beat you to it.

You are absolutely correct about the 'S' type by the way and it is something that Engcon could concentrate on?
We would take a hitch and buckets from a Dealer, so why not 'S' type as you say, it's the best out there and the buckets are nice too.
You are again correct in the fact it would certainly go a long way to ease the burden come time to slip the Tilty unit in the gap between.

Talk to Engcon about it, they certainly don't do a discounted Hitch/Bucket package to my knowledge supplied direct or through any dealers, it's a great idea.




Eddie.
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  #19   IP: 213.78.124.22
Old 20-02-2017, 11:08 AM
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EngconUK EngconUK is offline
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Some good pointers here - thanks.

Eddie's point about it not being a 9-5 job is valid. In 2015 I took a call at 8.45pm on a Friday night from a guy who was really keen for a tilty. He drove down to CTA from Cumbria on Saturday morning (Nigel opened up specially for him) and placed the order with John Craig on Monday morning. We will modify the job spec.

Having a demo machine is also something we can look at. It was out of the question in 2015 as I was on my tod and last year our focus was getting the spares, service and sales running properly at Tewkesbury. Yes, CTA is a little formal and Exac-one does compensate a bit; but I'm a firm believer that if you try one, you'll buy one (eventually). Let me see what we've got in the piggy bank....

I'm pretty sure all the tilty manufacturers here in the UK and Ireland push the S-Type hitch - we certainly do. Anything else is a compromise, and a bad one at that.

Not sure about the Ferrero Rocher, though.

Robert
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  #20   IP: 95.150.140.67
Old 20-02-2017, 11:53 AM
Eddiebackblade Eddiebackblade is offline
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Some good pointers here - thanks.

Eddie's point about it not being a 9-5 job is valid. In 2015 I took a call at 8.45pm on a Friday night from a guy who was really keen for a tilty. He drove down to CTA from Cumbria on Saturday morning (Nigel opened up specially for him) and placed the order with John Craig on Monday morning. We will modify the job spec.

Having a demo machine is also something we can look at. It was out of the question in 2015 as I was on my tod and last year our focus was getting the spares, service and sales running properly at Tewkesbury. Yes, CTA is a little formal and Exac-one does compensate a bit; but I'm a firm believer that if you try one, you'll buy one (eventually). Let me see what we've got in the piggy bank....

I'm pretty sure all the tilty manufacturers here in the UK and Ireland push the S-Type hitch - we certainly do. Anything else is a compromise, and a bad one at that.

Not sure about the Ferrero Rocher, though.

Robert

So sitting here waiting for the loss adjuster to call for the Liebherr, I have messaged a guy in New York, E mailed another in France plus assisted two more guys who come from another Forum.
Last week, sorting a Tree Shear argument that had broke out over flows, specced two more setups that will get purchased, plus a few more initial calls.

I bet Shaun Gratton will have done something similar too?


I my own business and don't get a penny for it? Does it really warrant another salary at Engcon UK, I haven't seen any rope burns from pulling at Engcon UK yet?

Take a look at Pat Bulcock sometime? Bloke is everywhere!
I went to JCB factory to see the new Steewrists coming off the actual production line and he's in his overalls doing the next stage with them in the bay next door.
Couple of days later, I'm at Lamma on the Liebherr stand, and he's there waiting for the end of the show to take his unit off the Liebherr to take home.
Pat lives and breathes the job and the results are showing now.


From an outsider looking in, you have enough staff there to have this industry swamped with Engcon, but they won't do it all from a phone.

Plantworx should be your main focus at present, there's going to be a lot of guys going to it, and make it a UK Engcon stand, not any more of that Swedish way crap. They give us the idea, we've ran off with it now and done our own thing with it.
Get a wide range of machines on there, plenty of users who people will know on the stand and perhaps even invite John Craig to answer the Technical stuff!

Two invites in the post to all existing customers and any enquiries on file to bring a mate along for a hog roast, and stand will be buzzing.
I may be wrong but it just may produce more than a guy behind a desk?



Eddie.
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