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  #411   IP: 81.92.203.44
Old 15-04-2018, 06:15 PM
Eddiebackblade Eddiebackblade is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Just wanted to convey I'd been contacted yet again by a user who's run into issues further down the line with his Tilty setup, and is now faced with limited options, including starting again with the addition of a full control setup to get his attachment running correctly.

I really don't care what anyone purchases, you have been warned time and again before jumping in do your homework, and yes include your wish list for a few years on in your business, even though it may seem crazy now.
The small financial hurdle now, may end up a complete brick wall further down the line.


Eddie.
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  #412   IP: 162.223.100.10
Old 16-04-2018, 10:42 PM
Eddiebackblade Eddiebackblade is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Basically having found that itís an SS5 setup on an Engcon of which Iíve had absolutely no experience of, and was in total disbelief that such a pile of shit was ever sold to try and control a Tilty, the guy had ended up going full SVAB.

From my understanding of what he currently has, SS5 is press an electric pedal on the floor to fire in the auxiliary and press whatever button on the lever to get the required function.
It allows you to at least have the auxiliary under the Tilty from what Iíve seen of his setup, but absolutely no control of the functions just on/off.
Heís tried restrictors in the lines to gain a bit more control, but thatís ended up making it useless for a Tree Shear.
Iíll no doubt have a chat with John Craig to get a better understanding of it, but from what Iíve seen so far youíre worse off with this than the much talked about basic setup that at least allows you to feather the pedal to give some control.

Tilty setups!🙈 I went full proportional from day1 and have never regretted it yet.


Eddie.
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  #413   IP: 81.147.100.200
Old 16-04-2018, 11:24 PM
hiluxman hiluxman is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Ss5 means bugger all to me and I dare say same about 90% of others that read this too.

I lost interest in this thread after page 5 or so as it just became a war of who knows most about it vs who knows nothing. (Although I did comment recently on somthing but skipped many pages)

I get it I really do. However for me here and now it doesn't work. (Please read 'for me')

My conclusion is our industry in the UK is fcuk'd....we will not go ins and outs but, let's say it's all down to your own situation.
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  #414   IP: 86.139.23.48
Old 17-04-2018, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

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My conclusion is our industry in the UK is fukdy
Correct...
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  #415   IP: 86.132.10.113
Old 17-04-2018, 07:28 AM
pond digger pond digger is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

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Correct...
I like a man with positive attitude .
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  #416   IP: 86.139.23.48
Old 17-04-2018, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

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Originally Posted by pond digger View Post
I like a man with positive attitude .
In these times it's the correct attitude to have. Had a lot of discussion of late with various people r.e what to do. the end result is to keep plodding along.

The opportunities just aren't there, certainly they aren't there in the abundance they where in the 60's 70's and perhaps even the 80's where a cheap machine could be brought and tarted up, a Hire found and you moved forwards.

Today, the opportunities are long gone. We are here talking about a expensive addition to a machine and operator package which some are deeming as a essential thing for the future, in a hire market that hasn't actually grasped the idea of having a well equipped machine and driver yet..... quite the opposite, as a machine with 3 buckets and the lowest cost will always get the larger hires.

It's sad, but it's reality. And no one seems to of mastered how you go about changing it without going and pricing big jobs as a contractor, and dealing with the burden that goes with it?

Industry is well and truly fkud'ed as Hiluxmans said. We have nearly run out of trees to decapitate here in the westcountry within 3 years of the widespread adoption of the sheer for instance.... which now means all those who have made there pocket money with them will move onto something else
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  #417   IP: 213.78.124.22
Old 17-04-2018, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiebackblade View Post
Basically having found that itís an SS5 setup on an Engcon of which Iíve had absolutely no experience of, and was in total disbelief that such a pile of shit was ever sold to try and control a Tilty, the guy had ended up going full SVAB.

From my understanding of what he currently has, SS5 is press an electric pedal on the floor to fire in the auxiliary and press whatever button on the lever to get the required function.
It allows you to at least have the auxiliary under the Tilty from what Iíve seen of his setup, but absolutely no control of the functions just on/off.
Heís tried restrictors in the lines to gain a bit more control, but thatís ended up making it useless for a Tree Shear.
Iíll no doubt have a chat with John Craig to get a better understanding of it, but from what Iíve seen so far youíre worse off with this than the much talked about basic setup that at least allows you to feather the pedal to give some control.

Tilty setups!🙈 I went full proportional from day1 and have never regretted it yet.


Eddie.
SS5 is an old control system that goes back 10 or 15 years when tilties were being picked up by the railways, but it has been adapted to other applications since. For the record, I've only sold them into railway applications since I've been with Engcon. Simply put, it's quite a lot like Druid's setup insofar as it allows multiple functions to be selected using buttons on the joysticks. The valves in the tilty are non-proportional (i.e. on/off) so any proportional control must be provided elsewhere - usually by a pedal with a direct mechanical link to the valve chest. If you don't have this proportional control ability then you are stuck with on/off which is going to be jerky to say the least.

Two comments:

I agree with you Eddie in that the fully proportional DC2/SVAB system is where many people want to go and, indeed, will probably end up. Several of the visitors to the Big Dig Day said pretty much the same thing, after trying the entry-level (Marmite) system on the U25 and then the DC2 setups on the Sany and the TB260; but their budgets were limited and they were prepared to compromise for a year or so to get into tilty territory. An informed decision.

A variation of our new SS15 effectively replaces the SS5 in that you can build banks of controllers to give added functions - ISTR you had something similar on Big Feller, albeit with inherent proportional control. SS15 gives tilt and rotate only, with proportional control from the pedal. Added functions are possible according to your needs and budget.

regards

Robert
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  #418   IP: 213.78.124.22
Old 17-04-2018, 09:46 AM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD450A View Post
Today, the opportunities are long gone. We are here talking about a expensive addition to a machine and operator package which some are deeming as a essential thing for the future, in a hire market that hasn't actually grasped the idea of having a well equipped machine and driver yet..... quite the opposite, as a machine with 3 buckets and the lowest cost will always get the larger hires.
I have hope, Rory

We know that the Scandi attitude is to spend as much, if not more, on your attachments as you do on the host machine - something that Eddie et al have been promoting long before I turned up.

But it wasn't always like that. I was in Stockholm a month ago talking to a senior manager for one of the larger main contractors and he can remember the dominance of the low-cost hire market over there many years ago. I don't think I'm alone in thinking that tilties (and other attachments, natch) have the opportunity to lift the Owner-Op out of this spiral. Maybe it's a dream, but everyone's got to have one.

regards

Robert
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  #419   IP: 213.205.242.168
Old 17-04-2018, 10:56 AM
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komatsu komatsu is offline
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

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Originally Posted by hiluxman View Post
Ss5 means bugger all to me and I dare say same about 90% of others that read this too.
Well that point was raised many many months ago, all this "Ss" jargon should be left in the office for when the orders are been processed, I still don't get it half the time, and I dare say it puts a lot of people off, wondering if they need to get extra pipe work etc, etc, etc, done to there machine, then just walk away instead.

They seem to be made out to be more complicated than they actually are. There should just be a simple

1. plug and play, (with and explanation of what they will need)
2. one with control system
3. All singing, all dancing,

Then joe bloggs can go away thinking, "well that will work for me" rather than thinking "what did i need again for that Ss thing he was talking about"
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Last edited by komatsu; 17-04-2018 at 11:04 AM.
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  #420   IP: 213.78.124.22
Old 17-04-2018, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: So - an opinion - tiltys and prices !

Quote:
Originally Posted by komatsu View Post
Well that point was raised many many months ago, all this "Ss" jargon should be left in the office for when the orders are been processed, I still don't get it half the time, and I dare say it puts a lot of people off, wondering if they need to get extra pipe work etc, etc, etc, done to there machine, then just walk away instead.

They seem to be made out to be more complicated than they actually are. There should just be a simple

1. plug and play, (with and explanation of what they will need)
2. one with control system
3. All singing, all dancing,

Then joe bloggs can go away thinking, "well that will work for me" rather than thinking "what did i need again for that Ss thing he was talking about"
Speaking as a manufacturer who uses all this jargon Ollie, I couldn't agree more

It's the bit in the middle (No. 2) that's tricky as there are so many variations on a theme. I'm OK with 1 and 3, but I suspect one or two customers might object if we said 'Oh, that one's got a control system' and think that I'm taking the you know what.

Happy to sit down with a bacon roll on Mr Craig's stand this week and thrash out a way to demystify it with you.

regards

Robert
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