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  #1   IP: 82.132.212.196
Old 28-12-2017, 11:23 AM
big jordy big jordy is offline
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Default Fed up big time

http://www.bsdtraining.com/Withdrawl...ant-EWPA-route

God help anyone trying to get in the industry it's a bloody minefield and pile of crap...

Jordan
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  #2   IP: 86.138.19.148
Old 28-12-2017, 03:43 PM
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JD450A JD450A is offline
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Default Re: Fed up big time

To be honest that's the way it should be IMHO for a vocational qualification. What it will stop is colleges shoehorning students through NVQ's without there students actually driving the machines there photographed on and it will also stop a lot of people doing dodgy NVQ's down the pub. No valid reason a simulator should ever be used to assess a student on as the differences are fkn vast.

Step in the right direction IMHO
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  #3   IP: 31.52.88.212
Old 28-12-2017, 04:03 PM
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V8Druid V8Druid is offline
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Default Re: Fed up big time

well that's short notice .... but have to agree with Rory ..... HTF can anyone be considered competent having only sat in front of a simulator screen

I believe that this was discussed a while ago and the consensus then was 'a crock of shit'

I also agree with Jordy too .... this'll really make life difficult
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  #4   IP: 84.13.196.169
Old 28-12-2017, 06:35 PM
big jordy big jordy is offline
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Default Re: Fed up big time

I'm all for making things better and more fair but that's just a pile of balls more hoops and money to get a plastic card... and if you can't get to a machine or have no access to one to get your nvq your more or less up shit creek... and another point in my opinion some guys can be brilliant machine operators but having someone watch them to asses them can make them go to bits.. not talking a banksman or work mates... things are really away to hell.. if my nvq wasn't already done if be getting out of the industry... to much hassle.... I do a fair bit of stgo work and as we all know it's a hell of alot different that normal wagon work... just a normal hgv1 licence... can't understand the need for all that extra bullshit for the machine cards


Anyways rant over

Jordan
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  #5   IP: 86.138.19.148
Old 28-12-2017, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Fed up big time

I know your point but if you haven't got access to a machine you sure as shit shouldn't be getting a NVQ 2 to pilot one, a NVQ 2 isn't a dummy ticket it's almost a A level qualification.. The stupid thing is the industry is too foolish to create a NVQ3 Level in Plant operations that would enable those with the skills to advance easily into engineering/managment

I'm all for this. Mainly because several colleges have jumped on the bandwagon of using simulators for pretty much 90% of there training.... It's cheap, convenient and eliminates all the dangers associated with young lads learning to operate machines at a college...... the unfortunate thing is then they are ticketed and able to go out in the real world and learn a hard enough thing to do if you've trained in good conditions on new kit, let alone if you've not had more than 12hrs in the seat.

I was told the other day that learners on the first course at Duchy can now hope to achieve only there forward tipping dumper ticket, Which is frankly piss poor and disappointing.

Bottom line is the system is fucked..... If I won the lottery I'd buy a nice big site and setup a training college.... get some excellent mentors/tutors/teachers like Mr (Roberto) T who have experience, humor, wisdom and the ability to inspire, Some half decent kit, and fill the training site with Dummy cables, pipes, overheads, Hazards and "anomalies"..... Let students learn first hand what it's like to hit a cable, or a pipe in a controlled environment. And let them learn how to trace them and what to do if they hit them!

Best of all get some other industries in.... Biggest risk with plant is it moving and those trades that DO NOT understand the risks..... Plenty of surveyors, site managers and trades that could benefit from a big dummy site to learn on from experience!

Beautiful thing with a college is that a Class of 30 can make 30 mistakes together and learn.... whereas a single person would have to make those 30 mistakes on his own!

Never happen though. Primarily due to cost and industry attitudes...... But if anyone wanted to setup a fucking brilliant program of advanced learning for the industry.... Ring me! I'd drop pretty much everything to set something proper up for lads like me in the future!
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  #6   IP: 84.13.196.169
Old 28-12-2017, 09:30 PM
big jordy big jordy is offline
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Default Re: Fed up big time

Totally agree with what your saying but in my opinion the only way to learn is with seat time.. I got the chance to learn with a great mentor(old hand) the industry more or less shafted them old guys and at least 99per cent of them had no tickets let alone qualifications.. just a really flawed system designed to line the pockets of big business.. and on your first comment I personally think that attitude or view is part of the reason no younger guys or girls can get into the industry because no one will give them a chance


Jordan
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Old 28-12-2017, 10:15 PM
Eddiebackblade Eddiebackblade is offline
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Default Re: Fed up big time

Rory is absolutely on the money here, I've been on about it for years, the need for somewhere we aspire to eventually go to be tested by peers and achieve a qualification that carries weight wherever it goes.
Plant Operating is crazy, you buy a ticket and that's it as far as you can aspire to, apart from setting your own goals of bigger kit, going it alone or whatever.

You should enter as an apprentice with a known and tested basic Health and Safety knowledge and be mentored on site for a restricted time period on the machines.

If it's for you then go and achieve what would be a 'Standard' licence, which plenty would be happy with, and for those who want to have a better chance of employment opportunities or increased payment, then eventually go for an 'Advanced' test in the category.
This should be something you would work and are mentored towards, your daily work is assessed and taken into consideration, before going forward when invited as being suitable for a shot at the Advanced Test.

If you wanted to play the game and keep a 'Provisional' licence, you'd have to wait a fixed period before coming back in again.

Big difference when we all turn up at the induction now and the cards go on the table? We all know who's just out of school and needs an eye keeping on them and we know who should be able to be left to get on a bit.
There present farce of "well he had a ticket" as yet another machine is on Facebook on it's side or worse, simply has to end.

It's of much interest to me at present as I'm recruiting a few Operators for someone, and cutting through all the layers to find what's underneath is difficult to say the least.

Rory may be pleased to know the best I have come across so far is only 21, Operates a nice setup on a daily basis and really shone when he spent two days with myself being throw on anything from an 18 metre Long Reach with Felling Head to the Levelizer Takeuchi.
It really restored my faith that guys are still out there with the same passion I had back then, and hopefully he's landed well on his feet.
Age is unimportant in this game, some never learn properly in a lifetime.


Eddie.
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  #8   IP: 86.138.19.148
Old 28-12-2017, 11:28 PM
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JD450A JD450A is offline
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Default Re: Fed up big time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiebackblade View Post
Age is unimportant in this game, some never learn properly in a lifetime.
Nail and head. Attitude is the main thing, there is nothing to aspire to at present and those who are traditionally encouraged into the construction industry as a whole tend to be what I would sadly call the cast offs of education. A piss poor attitude towards listening and learning that has developed due to years of being a "retard" or "thick" at school and being talked down to continues into the workplace.

Glad your finding them Eddie. Current generation below me, hand eye coordination and ability to learn new controls is incredible! just the attitude in many falls very short
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  #9   IP: 149.254.184.67
Old 29-12-2017, 07:51 PM
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Default Re: Fed up big time

All well n good,but when all these shiny faced,enthusiastic new guys roll out with their shiny tickets in hand their greeted by........by and large industry that treats them like shite,short term agency work,or on the books at a shite rate.....but it's long term work.
Fair enough plant/ construction always has been short term work but seems like kids these days less keen to get hands dirty,possibly because there's less chance of getting on a site,unless you've got a ticket,no 'on site'
training to build skills,number of blokes that want to run before they can walk,know loads who go straight to 360 rather than 1rb,dumper route n couldn't drive a nail.
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  #10   IP: 86.138.19.148
Old 29-12-2017, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Fed up big time

Trouble is Lynchy a Fkn huge amount of lads idea of driving a 360 is to show up at 8.30am, fire the machine strait from tickover to flat out until 5am or a time that is sooner when the machine is unceremoniously dumped from flat out to zero RPM almost as quickly as the seat filler has jumped in the van for home. Oh and whilst doing this they will jump from job to job for whoever is 2 pence a hour better!

Seen plenty come and go. It would seem those who are passionate quickly give up working for others and go into there own world. I said passionate not good!
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