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  #11   IP: 86.169.42.217
Old 25-09-2015, 03:32 PM
bri963 bri963 is offline
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Default Re: Emissions

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Originally Posted by Uffex1900 View Post
Sorry my post far from provoking some healthy discussion which was the intention, it appears to offended some less polite members of the forum
Uffex, this is healthy discussion - UK style. Now some of the early Tier 4 engines were a little thirsty, as they were optimised for performance and the after treatment was left to clean up. This was an interim measure until the requirements for T4 Final were in place, and it was realised that fuel consumption was excessive, and production of particulates needed to be reduced, so many manufacturers jacked up injection pressures. This increased in-cylinder pressures and temperatures and helped efficient combustion, thus reducing particulates and unburnt hydrocarbons, but at the same time increased nitrous oxides in the exhaust gases, hence the need for urea (ad blue) injection to deal with these carcinogens.

So in a nutshell, ad blue is the price we pay for reduced fuel consumption, and while early T4 offerings in some applications were greedier, later ones are getting much better. End of the day, operator education is the quickest way to get efficiency. Good luck with that one.

Last edited by bri963; 25-09-2015 at 03:45 PM.
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  #12   IP: 213.205.251.114
Old 25-09-2015, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: Emissions

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Originally Posted by Uffex1900 View Post
Sorry my post far from provoking some healthy discussion which was the intention, it appears to offended some less polite members of the forum
You got that right .... How about re reading your posts and see where the original obstinate attitude originated.

Does make wonder ...... Posters with attitude and abrupt speaking suddenly start finger pointing after getting a just and equally firm reply ..... Then blame the recipient when he does this !! Kettle/black and hypocrisy spring to mind with no serious reply to the subject of discussion whatsoever.

Last edited by Traxcavator.; 25-09-2015 at 05:06 PM.
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  #13   IP: 86.132.144.49
Old 25-09-2015, 08:20 PM
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Shovelhands Shovelhands is offline
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Default Re: Emissions

If this emissions scandal has told us one thing it's that we put all our trust in manufacturers to deliver to us a compliant engine, after all it's the one aspect we cannot check and evaluate ourselves, like economy, power ect and VW have obviously been caught out and it's probably their quest for more fuel efficiency that has resulted in them breaking the rules, there was probably a point at which their engines met standards and were very efficient, then more efficiency has resulted in higher emissions. And to meet consumer demand they have created clever software to break the rules, unbeknown to the consumer. But the consumer was happy with the better fuel economy!

As for modern engines within our industry, I'm more than happy with the performance of the newest items we have, JCB take a lot of stick, some of it deservedly so, but my experience of these latest engines from JCB is very good.
Our Tier4 Telehandler is more fuel efficient than the previous T3 model, despite having more power and larger cubic capacity, it has no after treatment like ad blue or DPF.
The little JCB/Koeler in the 86c is pretty good on fuel I reckon, and also has no after treatment.
The T2 dieselmax I have on the spreader is doing well but difficult to measure economy, but has made the machine as a whole more economical.
I have no idea if any of them meet standards, none of us do, we have to trust them to do the job right, we have no choice really.

But some of our most fuel efficient machines are the oldest ones! They may not meet modern standards but the emmisions and pollution generated and energy used in producing a new machine to replace them is far more than they will ever produce if I keep them another 20 years! So as long as I can buy diesel to put in them I'm happy to run a bit of older kit.

We may care about the emmisions on our kit but we can't check it , so we are usually more interested in how good the engine is in other areas, if we are happy with what we've got then that's all that matters in a way. Using this latest kit is the easy bit I reckon, if we had to jump through the hoops that engine manufacturers have to to get things up to standards then we'd go nuts!
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  #14   IP: 86.27.91.7
Old 06-10-2015, 07:12 PM
MchaleBuildingServices MchaleBuildingServices is offline
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Default Re: Emissions

Lets face it alot of people bought those cars for the cheaper car tax so unless the government change the tax classes for the cars affected they haven't really got anything to complain about as they are not really out of pocket, although maybe a slight devaluation of their cars value which wouldn't be much more than current levels.
The worse thing that everyone should be getting annoyed about is the bs mpg figures they give
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  #15   IP: 81.147.126.72
Old 06-10-2015, 07:35 PM
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Default Re: Emissions

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Originally Posted by MchaleBuildingServices View Post
Lets face it alot of people bought those cars for the cheaper car tax so unless the government change the tax classes for the cars affected they haven't really got anything to complain about as they are not really out of pocket, although maybe a slight devaluation of their cars value which wouldn't be much more than current levels.
The worse thing that everyone should be getting annoyed about is the bs mpg figures they give
Agreed but if they re-map the affected vehicles then that must be at a cost to either fuel economy, which as you say is bollox mostly anyway, or performance.

Which will result in the vehicles not being the same car as was sold to them, opening a whole raft of claims by very clever lawyers. This will cost VW far more than they are expecting I think?

If they can keep the performance and economy of the cheating vehicles and meet standards then there would be no need to cheat in the first place, either way they are not out of the woods yet by a long shot!
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  #16   IP: 2.97.224.159
Old 06-10-2015, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Emissions

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Originally Posted by Shovelhands View Post
Agreed but if they re-map the affected vehicles then that must be at a cost to either fuel economy, which as you say is bollox mostly anyway, or performance.

Which will result in the vehicles not being the same car as was sold to them, opening a whole raft of claims by very clever lawyers. This will cost VW far more than they are expecting I think?

If they can keep the performance and economy of the cheating vehicles and meet standards then there would be no need to cheat in the first place, either way they are not out of the woods yet by a long shot!
If I owned a VW the last thing on my mind would be worrying about a slightly over the spec emmision reading. They could have got out of this a lot richer too, if they had used a bit of brain power ..... oh my mistake all the brains have been tampered with !!
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  #17   IP: 86.27.91.7
Old 06-10-2015, 08:06 PM
MchaleBuildingServices MchaleBuildingServices is offline
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Default Re: Emissions

We have a 1.9cdti zafira which managed barely 40mpg on a run and high 20 to low 30 round town near enough 10mpg less than figures had it remapped (ecu tuned not the crude fuel pressure raising crd boxes) now get low to mid 40mpg round town and when we went Yarmouth a few months ago, we got an average of 65mpg and that was with 2 adults, a 3 year old and a 4 month old plus the boot filled all the way to roof.
The bonus to it as well is that power/performance wise its now not far off of the zafira vxr but with probably twice the mpg and half the road tax

Last edited by MchaleBuildingServices; 06-10-2015 at 08:13 PM.
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  #18   IP: 81.147.126.72
Old 06-10-2015, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Emissions

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Originally Posted by Traxcavator. View Post
If I owned a VW the last thing on my mind would be worrying about a slightly over the spec emmision reading. They could have got out of this a lot richer too, if they had used a bit of brain power ..... oh my mistake all the brains have been tampered with !!
PMSL

Yep they messed up more than the cars, played the whole ball game the wrong way. These cars are now a bad investment whichever way you cut it, brand confidence has to be affected, not that I'm keen on VW, never floated my boat.
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  #19   IP: 86.135.100.242
Old 06-10-2015, 08:35 PM
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d4c24a d4c24a is offline
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Default Re: Emissions

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Originally Posted by MchaleBuildingServices View Post
We have a 1.9cdti zafira which managed barely 40mpg on a run and high 20 to low 30 round town near enough 10mpg less than figures had it remapped (ecu tuned not the crude fuel pressure raising crd boxes) now get low to mid 40mpg round town and when we went Yarmouth a few months ago, we got an average of 65mpg and that was with 2 adults, a 3 year old and a 4 month old plus the boot filled all the way to roof.
The bonus to it as well is that power/performance wise its now not far off of the zafira vxr but with probably twice the mpg and half the road tax
thats because its a fiat engine 2.0 dti in my astra , standard with 145000 on the clock gets well over 50 mpg
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  #20   IP: 2.97.224.159
Old 06-10-2015, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Emissions

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Originally Posted by d4c24a View Post
thats because its a fiat engine 2.0 dti in my astra , standard with 145000 on the clock gets well over 50 mpg
We have a 55reg combo van with a 1.3Lcdti engine (fiat crap) been an absolute nightmare ...... never again has mileage over 200K but rebuilt it this summer. Just had hp pump rebuilt, was knacked. List of problems with engine and van it's self is a bit long.

Last edited by Traxcavator.; 06-10-2015 at 08:54 PM.
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